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inspiration » B - Series » 02 - A Song of Ice and Fire » Some Post SoS thoughts...
 
     
 
 
Author Topic: Some Post SoS thoughts...
Nighttfall
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posted 08 November 2000 07:34 PM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Before I go into too much detail and added to fact I don't know I did or did not register when last I stopped by this lovely forum, I do want to gauge everyone reactions to these events/characters

Davos, I for one find him a fascinating man and also one that might make a name for himself

Jaime Lannister. Admittedly I disliked the man from GoT and CoK but when reading over SoS, I felt the shift in him. Maybe with the loss and also the fact that Brienne was willing to do her duty, Jaime saw more clearly his own duty and self. That young noble man that had, because of lust and insecurity,


Tyrion. Such a complex little man. On the one hand, one feels sorry for how embittered he becomes, seeing everyone turn on him at the end and especially his own kin. I was kind of hoping as I read that Jaime would stand for his brother but then I remember my own words. He stands for the King/Queen and the Iron Throne. So that in a way make sense for

I must say that Martin and my own dark half must have been time sharing some thoughts because for a time, there was a part of me thinking just what could humble and maybe kill a man's spirit like the Mountain? Illness for sure because like many before him, the Mountain relied on himself. If that should fail... Well it was kind of a perverse joy to have him so badly poisoned by the Red Viper that he might end up either dead and/or severely crippled. Imagine the joy Sandor will feel even though I'm sure he wanted to humble his monstrous brother himself.

The Red Viper is also a character I wish we could have played more with. Certainly I felt that now Dorne and especially Highgarden will have a nice little cold war going and maybe even a hot one. I do know this. The Seven Kingdoms will not be united as there are just too many good players left.


The Red Wedding left me hating the late Lord Frey more than I ever thought possible. I want to see Catyln turn into a kind of killer like Waylander the Slayer. The fear alone and maybe the knowledge that all the Freys in that line will be wiped from all existence might be too much to hope for. But then again, stranger things have happened.

I'm also glad Jon got control of the Night Watch. Even though he'll be warring, politically speaking with Stannis and in a sense, Mellisandre, for control of the Watch, at least they'll both keep the white walkers at bay. It's a tinder box everywhere but I have feeling that in five years, it will be more so.

Rickon, I also feel, will have a PoV plus maybe some of the Crannogman skills. I do think he'll stay far from Manderly and more in the Neck. After all, who better to keep secrets than the man that knows about Eddard and in a sense, Jon's partange/history.

So there are my thoughts. Please feel free to respond.


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Jeordhi
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posted 09 November 2000 12:13 AM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Hallloooo Nightfall! Don't believe I've had the pleasure.

Ser.. er... -Lord- Davos is definately an interesting character, and he fits the mold of Azor Ahai much closer than Stannis. He will definately be making a name for himself further into the books...

Jaime has dug around the bottom of that dung bucket and found what he had once lost. The Lord Commander of the Kingsguard probably demands a certain amount of respect... he can't be made Hand, surely now that he has finally remembered them, he wouldn't forswear his vows...

The new Hand... probably a Tyrell?

Tyrion? My heart really went out to him... he had done all that he had as the acting Hand for the good of the realm... though that could be argued against. Terrible to see such little recognition for what he HAD done... he will make a very determined Advisor/General for Daenerys... doubtful he would recognize Arya if he saw her again...

Jon... what can I say? Jon is -the man-. Yes, he has been voted to Lord Commander of the Watch, but Stannis will -still- want the swords of the Northlands; they are the only resources he can draw from, excusing possibly Dorne, and Jon is the only way to do that. Mmmmmm hmmmnnn, TBOB has married an Arya lookalike, but the Northmen would jump to Jon's banner rather than Bolton's.

Should be interesting to see where we pick up... and what has transpired in the five years that we have been away from the Seven kingdoms. I want to meet this most mysterious Crannogman...

[This message has been edited by Jeordhi (edited 11-09-2000).]


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Lord_Wimsey
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posted 16 November 2000 03:04 AM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
And what of Varys and Littlefinger? I should preface by saying that prior to ASOS I thought Varys a respectable savior for the Kingdom, and Littlefinger a gagging wretched money-grubber. Now my views have quite reversed. Varys is repulsive to me in the extreme, always craven and fawning. Lord Baelish, however, murdered Lysa Arryn, and has been fairer, on the whole, to Sansa Lannister than he had any need to be. Surely this counts for something?


Your humble servant,
Lord Petyr Wimsey


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Jeordhi
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posted 16 November 2000 05:29 AM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 

Lord Whimsey! You drunken fool!

I'll let you know I was hung over for days after our wine fest, you should have told me that sweet 'summer' wine was laced with milk of the poppy... still, tis good to see you.
Yes, Littlefinger has redeemed himself a
-little-, but his motives are far from what they appear to be. It should prove interesting to see what he will do with the armies of the Vale. Will he have Sansa's marriage anulled and marry her himself... bestowing Winterfell as a bridal gift perhaps? Hmmmnnnn... one can only wonder.
Varys -does- truly seem to be working for the benefit of the realm, GRRM has just revealed to me that it was Varys, along with Illyrio, on that stairwell beneath the Red Keep when arya was lost in AGOT.
I wonder if the spider had, previous to landing in Westeros, been spinning webs for the merchant lord Illyrio Mopatis. They seemed to have been paving the way for Dany's return for quite some time...

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kullinaer
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posted 16 November 2000 04:30 PM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Hello, I am new to this forum also. I was posting a big long message and then I got disconnected so I will start again. You like Davos a lot but I have always found him a bit dull. I'm not sure why. These people who stick to points of honor (Ned, Davos, now Jaime) bug me a little bit (with the sole exception of Brienne). Ned died for it so we will see what happens to the others.

My favorite POV character is Tyrion, closely followed by Arya. My favorite non-POVs are Petyr and Sandor. Great, complex "bad guys." In quotes because I'm still not convinced. Obviously Sandor is turning a corner and Petyr . . . I don't think we have completely sussed out his motivations yet. I think peace is at least one of his top three (or five). He might have killed Jon Arryn for the same reason he apparently betrayed Ned . . . to avoid Stannis, and therefore war. It's hard to say. He's obviously ambitious to boot and that will always cloud the issue, especially for himself . . .

I found myself reluctantly caring for Sansa at last. I wish I could say "throw her from the moon door!" but I can't. At first I thought Petyr saved her for love of Catelyn, talking about being her father and whatnot, and I believed him. Then it turns out he has the hots for her . . . unless he orchestrated the whole thing so that Lysa would freak . . . very strange.

Somehow I knew it was Petyr who would "save" Sansa. I am not sure how it was foreshadowed but somehow, it was. I also suspected that Oleanna would kill Joffrey. She was so serenely unconcerned about her granddaughter being beaten that I knew it just wasn't gonna happen.

Now, I hope that Tyrion will save Sansa, for real this time. Who knows. Although . . . he never tried to take her out of the palace before, even though he knew she was miserable. Why didn't he leave with her? Curious. Probably, Sansa will spend the next five years with Petyr, while he perhaps preps her for marriage or something. 5 years' isolation in the Eyrie is a good situation for brainwashing.

Now I have a final question. If Jon Snow is really Rhaegar's son, as people are suspecting out there, then who is the third Targaryen (sp)? The three dragons would bear Dany, Jon, and ?. I say Bran, although he is not Targaryen, just because the crows told him he would fly. Or maybe riding the dragons has nothing to do with being Targaryen. Therefore the riders could be Dany, Bran, and ?. Maybe Arya--she's gone east, right? Well obviously I am confused on this point.

I am so excited to talk about this book with people who have read it!

Oh, one last thing, which concerns two of my favorite characters, Petyr and Tyrion. Why was Petyr out to get Tyrion from the beginning--as indicated by his statement that the dagger belonged to "The Imp"? Now, in Book 3 he doesn't seem to mind that Tyrion will be executed for his own crime. Why? Is it because he regards Tyrion as his most clever opponent? Or is there something else, some old beef?

OK that is all. Thanks for reading!

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--kullinaer


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Jeordhi
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posted 16 November 2000 05:07 PM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Kullinaer, greetings.

I am beginning to suspect that perhaps Tyrion might be this 'Third Dragon'. As to my reasoning check, out my latest post on the 'Tyrion and KL' forum.

But, I also must urge caution... last night I got to quetsion GRRM a bit, as the book signing I as at was very small, and I couldn't resist the oportunity to pick his brain a bit.

To quote his response, " Three heads of the dragon, yes... but the third will not nessesarily be a Targaryen " hmmmnnn... as vague as usual, and I must even wonder at how much -misinformation- he injects into his responses about the Seven Kingdoms...

Jon -IS- Rhaegar and Lyanna's son; here is how I believe GRRM confirmed it. We, my brother and two friends, had loitered around and found the opportunity to get GRRM all to ourselves for a time. My friend Steve asked if indeed Jon was Rhaegar and Lyanna's... GRRM looke at us and asked if we had read ASOS yet. He mentioned the knight of the 'Laughing Tree' and how that might be part of the story within the story... I had responed that as of yet, of the four of us, I was the only one who HAD read ASOS... and as to the mystery knight... I was pretty sure who -SHE- was... GRRM looked at me quite pointedly... I -swear- I even heard a soft grunt. The look on his face was far from a confirmation, but there was something there..


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kullinaer
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posted 17 November 2000 11:39 AM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Ha-HA! Interesting. Well I vote for Bran. He has been promised flight.

Could Jon then be the healing force between Dany and the Starks?

Oh yeah . . . Caution, caution . . .

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--kullinaer


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demonwarp66
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posted 17 November 2000 02:47 PM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
damn what did i hit? well i guess i start again.

lord davos.i say he might stand a chance. someone who has some honor has to make good in the world. also his service to stannis has been true and faithfull. i hope he can convince his king to oust the red bitch (not the hound from the nights watch) no one else will get her out of there. maybe thoros but not likely.

Jaime. i really hope some good things happen with him and the kingsguard. he better start taking after halfhand, too. he has but he better keep it up to oppose cersei. those two will NOT get along. anyone else find his dreams of brienne disturbing?

tyrion. well he isn't gonna stand for petyr taking the kingdoms over. he has plans for 3 kingdoms well under way and no doubt had a large hand in the dornish deal. he is married to sansa and needs to do something independently.

AHHH the red viper. so sorry to see him go. well the hound and his big brother may be an interesting little plot. i hope so.

the only reason i see bringing back cat would be to try to clean up the freys. i doubt revenge. that doesn't seem to fit with berric and thoros. after all that was why the knight of flowers was refused by ned.

jon has the ability to keep stannis and the rosy wench at bay, but i don't know how much he'll feel as though he needs the north and vice versa. he had some troubling thoughts, but he has ghost again, and that should help. tyrion showing up would also aid himm considerably.

AND GOOD GODS may we find our beloved crannogman in the next volume. we are all dying to meet him and i for one am infatuated with his daughter meera.

well i haven't a clue what everyone else thinks about brienne but i think she is pretty cool. she won't last though. she is too simple in her ways, and there are too many machinations that her sword cannot fight nor her honor defend. do not make any mistake though. the title maid of tarth was made for legends so watch out for something substantial beforehand. don

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do you have to open graves to find girls to fall in love with?


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kullinaer
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posted 17 November 2000 03:06 PM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
About Brienne and Sansa. They are both innocents in a way, and now Brienne is being given the mission of protecting Sansa. I'm wondering if she will find Sansa, and how, and if Petyr will kill her. I'm hoping that if she uses the password--"Catelyn"--she will not be killed.

But the two of them together . . . bumbling about, with their ideas of true nights and whatnot. Together, perhaps they could be stronger than one of them would be alone. Brienne is the only true knight in the book (that I can think of), and Sansa by this time deserves someone with whom she will not be disillusioned.

Is Sansa yet wiser than she was in book 1? When she lied to the King to protect Joffrey, her beloved? Certainly she got wise about Joffrey, but about the value of sacrificing personal feeling for honor, has she gotten wiser about that?

Well enough about Sansa. What about Jaime. I hope he doesn't make too big a point of keeping the honor of the Kingsguard. One is always forced to hypocrisy after a while, making stances like that--as Ned was--and in fact, he has already betrayed his office by freeing Tyrion. It wasn't a dishonorable deed--there was a different sort of honor involved there--but it was still a betrayal.

The two characters I am most excited to meet again, five years from the end of book 3, are Bran and Arya. So many things could change for them! Dany and Jon are simply going to strengthen their rulership skills, no doubt Sansa will continue to be foolish (you'd think Petyr would become bored eventually), and Catelyn, well, she'll continue to be dead (undead! undead! undead!)

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--kullinaer


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damntnyankee
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posted 07 December 2000 05:58 PM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Whoa!!! What the heck have I missed? I'm new to this forum and have spent the last three hours reading all of the theories and opinions. To be honest, I've found some to be quite out there, if not interesting. However, where did this Jon-Rhaegar connection come from? I TOTALLY missed it from ASOS. What is the 'mystery knight'? How does it relate to Jon being Rhaegar's son? Was it the story jojen told Bran about? How did Ned come about Jon and why would he raise him if he was Rhaegar's son? I'm completely lost and would appreciate some enlightenment on this subject.


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Oni
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posted 14 September 2005 08:39 PM      $post_id   Email Oni   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Well I hope Petyr trips, falls, and breaks his little neck.

The man is all about himself. He has taken the Lysa's lands, and now he plans on taking the North. I feel he started this whole mess, and he is evil to the core. But that seems to be just me. In all the books he is the only one I can say I truly dislike, and could use a good .

As far as PoV's go I enjoy the Imps the best. I hope he goes to his true friends the mountain raiders, and gives old Littlefinger the what for (for stealing his wife).

edited by Oni on September 15th, 2005

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