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inspiration » B - Series » 02 - A Song of Ice and Fire » Re-re-re-re-re-read questions
Author Topic: Re-re-re-re-re-read questions
Fist of Thunder
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posted 11 June 2004 03:46 AM      $post_id   Email Patchface   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Greetings all !

(My 7th reread so far, got to the end of aCoK...)

This will be a rather long post, 'cause I've got a couple of questions of which I'm not sure that they'd deserve a seperate topic (hopefully because they can be answered quickly...)
Feel free to start new threads, tho'...

Anyway, the questions :

1. Does anyone know why Ned and Howland Reed never sought each other out after the whole Tower of Joy business ? Now, Robert was quite a ways off in KL, and not easy to visit I suppose, but is the simple 'ruling took up all their time' excuse enough for two neighbours not too far apart? I believe it was stated quite often Ned and Howland were *very* close and after the ToJ that bond could only have strengthened...Or did it ? Did they have some sort of argument ? about what ? What's up (if anything) ?!

2. Ned often talks about Lyanna's secrets. With the emphasis on the *plural* ! We all know what one of them could be, but are there others ? If so, what ?
BTW, I don't read too much in that line, but still, any ideas ?

3. Aaaaah, Varys. One of my favorites. As I see him, he's still a loyal Targ-supporter, which I think most of you could agree upon. Now, given this, the counsel *we know of* has mostly been to keep Westeros in one piece, and relatively peaceful. To what end ? Obviously, the time isn't ripe for Dany to come claiming her throne yet, but is a divided realm not easier to conquer than a united one ? And does that imply he will start sowing chaos pretty soon once Dany starts to stir ? Or am I just - admittedly - a political incompetent ?

Enough stuff, maybe easily answered, but food for thought nonetheless, methinks...

Eagerly awaiting enlightenment,


[ 11 June 2004: Message edited by: Patchface ]

People overgeneralize too often

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posted 11 June 2004 11:47 AM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
well since i lost 1 of my books i havent reread them for a while and my memory isnt great but i could have a guess

1.there are a few possibly reasons for not going to see him
a.altho they are neighbours its still not an easy trip especialy with the dificulty of getting to howlands town which is never easy to find and is in swamp country
b.being lord of the north with sometimes waring liege lords he cant or wont show favourtisim (god i cant spell)and taking trips to see howland who most of the other lords dislike would cause trouble
c.maybe seeing howland reminds ned to much of the lies and secrets and makes him feel to much guilt or atleast ned thinks seeing him would

2.maybe that lyanna went willing (maybe she took advantage of the prince ) and just didnt love rob

3.maybe varys and co are believers in the prophecy and are worried there wont be enough of the 7 kingdoms left to fight the others if they start to early or are just worried that the war will be over before her dragons are grown and they can get dany off her arse and it would probly be alot harder maybe impossible to start infighting again or maybe just that they honestly dont wanna see somany die and the kingdoms in ruin and people splintering in the power void

god how long winded am i lol and most of it is likely wrong but i hope some or any of that helped

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posted 13 July 2004 01:29 AM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
1. Good question. Maybe there was a quarrel of some kind, or maybe Howland Reed just hates leaving home.

2. Yeah, I'm guessing that if Lyanna had more than one secret, the other would be that she went with Rhaegar willingly rather than being (as Robert thought) kidnapped and raped.

3. Based on Varys's conversation with Illyrio, it seems like their plan was to keep the Kingdoms together until Khal Drogo and Daenerys were ready to attack, and then sow chaos like nobody's business. Illyrio's complaint, after all, was not that war between the wolf and the lion was coming, but that it was coming too soon.

My guess would be that they were afraid of it ending too fast. If Joffrey hadn't killed Eddard Stark, or if Robb Stark hadn't been as clever a strategist as he was, the Lannisters might have crushed all opposition and gotten an iron grip on Westeros by now. If Renly and Stannis hadn't quarrelled, or if Tywin hadn't gotten the message in time to march to the relief of King's Landing (damn Edmure!), the Baratheons might have smashed the Lannisters and come to some kind of accord with Robb Stark. Either way, Khal Drogo would have faced a unified Westeros when he landed with his horde.

Of course, it's anybody's guess what Varys's plans are at this point. We know Jorah sent him a report from Qarth, so he probably knows about the dragons (he may be the only one in the Seven Kingdoms who does, at least for now). Still, his last information would indicate that Khal Drogo is dead, his khalasar dispersed, and Dany has three hatchling dragons but no army. Since I'd guess he doesn't yet know about the Unsullied, he and Illyrio no doubt expect they'll have to find Dany an army themselves. Perhaps that's why Varys helped Tyrion escape; with Tywin dead and Jaime in the Kingsguard, Tyrion might be able to lay claim to the lordship of House Lannister and divide the strength of Casterly Rock. I also wouldn't be surprised if they tried to win over Dorne and the Martells.

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posted 17 August 2004 02:51 AM      $post_id   Author's Homepage   Email Demandred   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Regarding Lyanna's secrets: Could it be that Jon has a twin brother? And if so, then is it Ned? He seems to have something of the Targaryen colouring, while Jon certainly takes after the Stark side of the family.

This would seem to fit with Lyanna having secrets, as well as being further justification for her death, as two births should be more hazardous than one, right? It also could explain where the Dragon's third head is, and why Ned's mother was without milk, as well as Jon being passed off as Wylla's son. The fact that he is named after Eddard Stark also seems to support this theory.

Circumstantial evidence, I know, but no worse than that supporting Jon's own claim, really, now is it?

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Fist of Thunder
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posted 17 August 2004 04:03 AM      $post_id   Email Patchface   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Damn it, Demandred, that's one hell of a good theory ! And new too !!

As you say, quite a lot of circumstantial evidence, but I really, really like your idea.
It also sorta' explains Ned's whole existence (I forgot exactly where we met him...Was it with Beric's band in an Arya-chapter...?) as I always had the idea it was kind of 'tossed in' for no good reason (except as a reference to Wylla).

I'll say it again : I'm really impressed by this theory and will do some more reading - someday -to maybe get some more clues...


People overgeneralize too often

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posted 22 August 2004 03:06 AM      $post_id   Author's Homepage   Email Demandred   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Of course! What use would be an old theory? (;

But yes, it doesn't seem to have any obvious flaws (at least, I'm grateful you didn't immediately see any I overlooked, either (: ), and it has worried me a couple of times in the past that if Jon were indeed a Targaryen, he should show some signs of it, surely. I mean, do we know of any other part-Targaryens who wouldn't have looked the part? They are the most noble house of all, in a certain sense, so it seems logical (from one perspective, at least) that their blood should breed true. But Jon looks entirely a Stark. So, having a fraternal twin who carries the Targaryen genes more visibly would seem to be an elegant solution.
(and yes, we met Ned Dayne with Beric's band -- he was Beric's squire, as Beric had been engaged to Ned's mother, I believe)

The only thing that baffles me, still, is where the Lady of Starfall fits in, with any of these theories. Ashara Dayne leapt to her death shortly after Ned Stark's departure from Starfall. Could it be that she was murdered to keep the secret of little Ned's birthright? That seems too coldblooded for Ned Start to have planned, to me...
Could she have truly fallen in love with Ned, and killed herself in despair over his refusal to dishonour his marriage vows? Possible, I suppose, but it seems too much of a coincedence, given the suspicious timing, so I don't really believe it. Any good ideas about her?

[ 22 August 2004: Message edited by: Demandred ]

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posted 21 October 2004 01:44 AM      $post_id   Author's Homepage   Email Demandred   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
I need to post a retraction, I think, regarding the Edric Dayne issue.

First, it's not a new theory, I've had it before apparently. How embarrassing!
( http://inspiration.dragonsworn.com/index.php?display=post&p=13103&f=6 )
And second, Tom and maia pointed out last time that Ned's too young to be Jon's twin.

It's too bad, really; I quite liked that theory.

edited by Demandred on October 21st, 2004

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