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inspiration » B - Series » 01 - The Wheel of Time » Taim and the Red Ajah (KOD spoilers)
 
     
 
 
Author Topic: Taim and the Red Ajah (KOD spoilers)
mashiara
Paladyne
LVL: 35

posted 02 November 2005 11:07 PM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Hey, I'll post my question and maybe someone out there will talk about it.. What do you think is going on with Taim and the Black Tower of his? I think we can all assume that all of his advanced Ashaman are up to no good and possibly all of them are Darkfriends, but what do you think about his decision to allow the Red Ajah to bond some of them? I wish Jordan hadn't picked that scene to close the book with, it left me really wondering. From the way Taim speaks and behaves he shows absolute disrespect for the Sisters.. so why is he allowing them to go on with the bonding? From all we know a bond puts the Aes Sedai in charge... has he found a way to change that and take control?

I hope there's someone out there. It would be a shame for this site to die after so long...


It is not enough to conquer;
one must learn to seduce.
Voltaire


Posts: 219 | ID: 65  |  Aligned: divinity  |  House: Serenity
LTT
Earth Golem
LVL: 770
posted 03 November 2005 02:19 AM      $post_id   Author's Homepage   Email LTT   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
How much control did Alanna have over Rand when she bonded him? Not much. As for Taim, there is no doubt he is a Darkfriend, someone possibly converted forcibily to the Shadow. Over a hundred Darkfriend Companions too? There must be more to this than simple Darkfriends learning how to channel the male half.
I also believe that Taim is letting them bond Ashaman not in his control. He didnt say they could bond his followers.

Posts: 195 | ID: 35  |  Aligned: unaligned  |  House: Element
mashiara
Paladyne
LVL: 35

posted 03 November 2005 10:34 PM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
I think Rand might have been an exception. I'm pretty sure that all the rest of the Ashaman who got bonded by Aes Sedai are pretty much controlled by them, as far as channeling goes. Isn't there a line in the book that for a man and a whoman to link while channeling the woman must be in control of the flows?

Maybe Taim's followers aren't simple Darkfriends any more. Maybe they're supposed to be the new Dreadlords (or is it Darklords??) in the Last Battle. (not my own original thought, Dalthor said it first.)


It is not enough to conquer;
one must learn to seduce.
Voltaire


Posts: 219 | ID: 65  |  Aligned: divinity  |  House: Serenity
Ishamael
Throne of Decay
LVL: 777

posted 07 November 2005 08:43 PM      $post_id   Author's Homepage   Email Ishamael   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
To weight in: Taim is *something*, definitely more than a darkfriend. As far as I know, 'Let the Lord of Chaos Rule' wasn't a mantra for the Shadow, but was something said to Demandred, which he shared only with the chosen.

Taim is far too powerful to be just a darkfriend, with no supervision, controlling 50 men who can channel? Come on.

If he's not one of the chosen, than someone is standing right behind him. You don't let stuff like that slide.

As for bonding the Red Ajah, or allowing them to bond - keep in mind the Reds have never bonded anyone, they can't be all too sure about it. Also, this 'bonding' is new in this age. Why even let it go that easy? A little compulsion, maybe they'll reverse the bonding, who knows.

Given that one of the chosen is heading this up, and with men involved to make mixed gender circles, this is just bad news through and through.


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Kyndig
Shield
LVL: 8
posted 07 November 2005 10:16 PM      $post_id   Email Kyndig   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
My take on all of this is just like the bonding process that happened with Morraine and Lan, a weak person can be controlled by a stronger person. Lan stayed and did as Morraine said because of duty, not some control that Morraine had over him. Rand dismisses Allanna "control" of him because he is strong willed. He is aware of her but is not controlled by hime. Flinn and Rand's Asha'men that were bonded by Aes Sedai think that Aes Sedai are stronger and better so they are led around by them, just as other "normal" Warders are led by their Aes Sedai.
I think it will come down to a test of wills as to who is in charge of the bonding process. Logain bonded AS against their will and control them (as far as he knows) they are still free. I think it comes down to strength in character as to who is actually in control.


Just Because You Can......
Doesn't Always Mean You Should!!!


Posts: 151 | ID: 49  |  Aligned: divinity  |  House: Serenity
mashiara
Paladyne
LVL: 35

posted 08 November 2005 11:10 PM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
There has to be a twist in all this. Maybe the Ashaman are planning on altering the bond process and using compulsion on the Aes Sedai who bond them. It has to be something like that, there's no way they are going to risk a 'test of wills'.

I wouldn't call Lan weak. Not at all. And I think that Warders aren't 'led' around by their Aes Sedai. For most of them it's an honor to serve, and it's something they do voluntarily.

Sigh. The old Demandred question. Call me stubborn if you wil, I don't believe Taim is Demandred. He is certainly above the other Darkfriends and he might be in touch with a Chosen but I just can't accept he is D. That 'let the lord of Chaos rule' line at the end of the book has to be Jordan's way of playing with us...

Now here's a new thought.. We know that a circle of 13 Darkfriend Aes Sedai can turn anybody to the Dark... what would a circle of 13 Darkfriend Ashaman do?


It is not enough to conquer;
one must learn to seduce.
Voltaire


Posts: 219 | ID: 65  |  Aligned: divinity  |  House: Serenity
FainFan
Lord Union
LVL: 44
posted 10 November 2005 12:53 AM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Sorry about the tangent.

I thought it took a fade and a circle of 13 and only OP users were vulnerable. Which I guess is interesting if you could be trained to channel but are not born with the spark. Wilder vs. someone that requires training... that's sort of the genetic paired recessives vs. a recessive on one side. I wonder if those who could learn but haven't are vulnerable.

Anyway, I think that this is a great opportunity to kill some lightfool Red AS and sew some last minute dissent that could strengthen the Elida White tower in the shakeout that's got to come when the white towers are recombined.

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Morgoth
Fire Ifrit
LVL: 12
posted 01 January 2006 04:15 PM      $post_id   Author's Homepage   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Eh, you're all assuming that Pevara's company is actually going to be allowed to bond some of the presumably darkfriend Asha'man. To recall, the scene went like this:

Pevara asks if they can bond some Asha'man.
Taim says 'Very well.'
Taim then says: "[...] ask who will let you bond them. Besides, you must remember the old saying. Let the lord of chaos rule."
Taim and his 100 then start laughing (evilly).

Does his comment about letting the lord of chaos rule fit in with the bonding or not? It seems he is agreeing sincerely with Pevara's request (provided the Asha'man accepts... I think this may be a sardonic comment meant to imply "Do you really think any of these fine DF Asha'man will accept?!") but with an evil undercurrent that involves spreading chaos. I don't, however, see how letting Light-following Red Ajah Aes Sedai bond would-be dreadlords meets this goal. Unless, as suggested, it involves turning the bond around somehow and forcing them to go and interfere with other Aes Sedai plans elsewhere.

edited by Morgoth on January 1st, 2006

Posts: 367 | ID: 48  |  Aligned: unaligned  |  House: Element