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inspiration » B - Series » 01 - The Wheel of Time » Whats to happen in next book
Author Topic: Whats to happen in next book
Earth Golem
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posted 11 November 2005 12:38 AM      $post_id   Author's Homepage   Email LTT   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Moiraine saved
Rand Healed? or is he destined to be a pirate forever? Dying with Ltt taking over.
Perrin saving him,
Last Battle (obviously)
Seanchan attack of WT
Rand Truce with seanchan
Dreadlord battle (black Tower in blood and fire)
Breaking the seals inside shayol ghul
All the forsaken dead:)

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Fire Ifrit
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posted 29 December 2005 07:33 PM      $post_id   Author's Homepage   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
I just finished reading KoD over the past few days. Great book, really excellent I would say. Some of the chapters were majestically written, the Egwene chapter that finished with the novices standing for her in the WT in particular left me with a feeling of Jordan being back to his best. I loved the action in the Elayne chapters which in previous books were painstaking. Ditto for the Perrin chapters - the destruction of the Shaido is one less plot thread to manage in book 12. Same again for the Seanchan, they are finally free to make a truce with Rand although I would really have liked to see that happen in KoD. I also hope Semirhage is dealt with quickly and that she doesn't go escaping and stuff. The Good Guys can be so incompetant at times. :rolleyes:

Question: what exactly is going on in Arad Doman? Did Rodel Ituralde form an alliance with Rand that I missed?? From the Seanchan discussion of the situation in the Epilogue, and from Ituralde's hope that the Seanchan would be hot on his heels into Arad Doman after the raids in Tarabon, it seems to be that his trap must have been referring to Rand dumping a couple hundred thou Aiel in there, but then that goes against an anticipation of a truce between Rand and the Seanchan. I'm not sure how that's going to end, although at the moment it looks like creating a big dent in Seanchan forces (and probably in Rand's as well by the end of it) and another of the great Captains leading Rand's armies.

Another thought: Egwene is still a bit away from actually becoming Amyrlin, surely? Yes, she's winning her war inside the WT but that's going to have to take up a lot of pages yet, and how under the Light is an entire Seanchan attack on the WT going to fare? That sounds like half a book between all that!

To make a list of things that need to happen, in part reiterating LTT's...

Mat, Thom and either Olver or Noal (Jain for sure judging by how Jordan described his reaction when claiming to be a cousin...) need to rescue Moiraine, who needs to meet up with Rand soon after that, and Mat then needs to get back to the Band and show up on time for TG.

Question: Mat doesn't have any Asha'man or Aes Sedai who can Travel with him, does he? I've confused myself on this: he cannot have any, because otherwise he would Travel out of Altara instead of fighting battles to make it to that pass (Malvine something-or-other), but at the same time the Seanchan have noted his army as fighting battles all over the place, in much the same manner as Rand's Asha'man-powered attack in WH. Maybe I misunderstood the Seanchan reading of the battles... he doesn't have (can't have) any channellers with him who can Travel. Therefore he needs to meet up with some quickly in order to get to the Tower of Ghenjei. Where? When? I'm not sure of the geography but I don't think he's anywhere near Perrin and they don't know where each other are anyway. He's heading towards Murandy/Andor but won't be getting anywhere in particular for a while yet so unless Rand finds out where he is and comes to have a chat, how is he going to get to the Tower of Ghenjei? In the same vein, how is his army going to get anywhere important? I assume when we next see a Mat POV that they'll have made it out of Altara but after that he needs to find some Asha'man pronto.

Is Olver or someone else going to turn out to be Gaidal Cain, despite all the problems associated with that? More and more I feel like Olver will have some part to play in TG. The repeated reference to him being taught the sword and how to fight by various men in the Band have all but confirmed that in my mind.

The next thing then is surely a proper truce with the Seanchan. How is this going to work though? Tuon, firmly in charge, believes Rand must kneel to the Crystal throne, which of course he won't. But her marriage to Mat, for the time being at least, doesn't look like it is going to allow Mat to curry any favours or pressurise any negotiations on Rand's part, particularly because he's going to be nowhere near Tuon for the foreseeable future. Thus, taking into account the imminent destruction of a large Seanchan army in Arad Doman by mainly Rand's forces, and the imminent attack on the White Tower (which is surely to be seen as Rand's side, if not his forces) doesn't leave much room for truces. So I have to wonder then, how the Seanchan are even going to impact on TG? I mean their main aim seems to be re-taking Tarabon, securing Altara, and from there moving on Ghealdan, Illian and probably Arad Doman. That's not going to happen before TG, and I think the main part of TG is going to happen further north of the main Seanchan armies. That is unless their attack on Tar Valon includes a large part of their forces and a truce is quickly formed there so that the Seanchan are then in a good position to fight Trollocs.

So much for the sul'dam-can-channel destroying the Seanchan as well by the way. KoD was much faster paced than the previous two books but there's an awful lot not being wrapped up in the slightest. :)

As you say LTT, Logain needs to get that glory from the Black Tower battle - will be interesting to see how many Dreadlords Taim has managed to create. Are all those 100 Asha'man in the room in the Epilogue Darkfriends? If so, there's bound to be a number of Dedicated leaning that way as well, even if Taim doesn't deal with such lowly folk (as indicated by the guy at the BT gate who greeted Pevara and co.). Surely all the remaining channellers in the BT aren't Darkfriends, just because they aren't in Logain's following? Scary thought if they are. Neither Rand nor Logain seem too focused on actually doing anything about Taim either at the moment so I wonder what is actually going to stimulate the inevitable battle there.

What is Perrin going to do for a book? Um. Mat has Moiraine to rescue but not much else to do, immediately at least. Perrin doesn't really have anything to do as such, in fact I'm not even sure if he has any plans after Faile's rescue. Travel back to Cairhien or Caemlyn? Not sure.

Ditto for Elayne, especially given Elaida's Foretelling that Andor will be key to the Last Battle. Um, how exactly... I presume Rand will show up and give her a time and place to be to fight Trollocs with Andor's armies. Probably at the same time as he deals with the Borderland army, if he even knows they are looking for him yet!

Yeah and then comes the actual battle part of the Last Battle. Fain's inevitable involvement, the Horn of Valere, Moiraine's involvement, Rand's blood on the rocks, Alivia helping him to die, the funeral bier with the three girls around it... not to mention the whole aftermath thing... Jeez I hope it isn't a matter of winning TG, and then a 10 page Epilogue to wrap up everything else! :eek:

Does anything else important need to happen?

KoD was superb but why oh why wasn't it 300 odd pages longer? :)

(edit: typos)

edited by Morgoth on December 30th, 2005

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Fire Ifrit
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posted 29 December 2005 07:56 PM      $post_id   Author's Homepage   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Another thing is the Ogier involvement. How widespread is that going to be, assuming Loial talks them into it? Has Eldar Haman gone shutting the remaining Waygates as well, I assume? Presumably with a random Asha'man taking him around.

Any thoughts on who actually sent the 100k Trollocs and Myrdraal to attack Rand in Tear? It wasn't Sammael despite Moridin's thoughts, that one is definitely dead. Demandred is the only one who springs to mind really - it's not Graendal's style, it couldn't have been Semirhage despite the precedent she set before in TDR. It also wasn't Mesaana after her recent scolding. Moghedian and Cyndane are obviously discounted. I would have thought that Aran'gar wouldn't go off on a limb like that, although it seems like she hasn't been doing a whole lot lately and what with her ambitious thoughts in the At The Gardens chapter it possible that she would ignore the old 'Let the Lord of Chaos rule' order. Demandred is, as I mentioned, the only other candidate, unless it was someone like Taim, although it's questionable whether even a high ranking Dreadlord like Taim would have the kind of power to order that many Trollocs around.

Sorry, that bit wasn't really about what happens in the next book, just random thoughts.

The whole Lan plot obviously needs some time devoted to it now as well after Nynaeve set all that in motion. And the Lan/Luc/Isam problem has to be addressed, possibly with some Wolf interaction from Perrin and friends.

Mmmm, trying to think of anything else that has to be concluded. I'll come back to this with anything else.

Maybe something final on who actually f***ing killed Asmodean. :D

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Fire Ifrit
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posted 30 December 2005 04:54 PM      $post_id   Author's Homepage   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Oh yeah two other things:

Galad and the Whitecloaks presumably need to meet up with Perrin so Galad can meet Berelain (Min's viewing, it couldn't mean anything else at this stage given the proximity of the two groups) and the Whitecloaks also need to get to TG... presumably with Perrin, although that could lead to problems with Perrin's eyes (but then Morgase should smooth over any such issues, one would imagine).

And also, unless things get nasty with Pevara's group bonding Taim's Asha'man (highly possible) then some book space needs to go to Aes Sedai under Egwene's banner bonding Asha'man (Logain's group probably).

Aiee so much to happen. And we have to wait two+ years!

edited by Morgoth on December 30th, 2005

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Lord Union
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posted 09 January 2006 07:57 PM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
There is a storm comming in the WOT universe that we've only heard the thunderings of so far; what is the place of channelers in the next age?
Excepting the Aiel, the societies that we've seen so far do not have a strong way to incorporate channeler's abilities and accomodate lifespans. I hope that gets dealt with in the next book.

I'd really like to get the Ogier/Deathwatch Ogier together to see what happens there too.

I thought it was a shame that RJ set the numerical limit on the books. I'm not sure there is a way to complete this series in one book that will leave the readership very satisfied. If RJ revists the main sequence after he works through the Infinity of Heaven project, he said he might like to come back to some of the characters portrayed in the novels, he might then be able to tie up most of our curiousity about the WOT world.

I just think that we're going to be out of luck and left with lots of unanswered questions.

Maybe the book will just end with Rand's death and everything else will stay unresolved.

{edited b/c I talk too much}

edited by FainFan on January 9th, 2006

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Fire Ifrit
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posted 13 January 2006 03:36 PM      $post_id   Author's Homepage   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
Speculation has been rife on Robert Jordan's blog on Dragonmount that the final book could top 2000 pages. This is because RJ has said that he will finish the series in 12 books no matter what, even if the last book has to be 2000 pages long.

A large number of people took this at face value and as an indication that the last book is going to be long, way longer than the rest in the series. RJ hasn't denied this in any way either, to be fair.

As you say, I don't understand his apparent need to finish in 12 installments. 13 is the obvious number especially with it holding some significance in the books. There has got to be easily enough plot material to go to 15 if he wanted. Now, at a guess, the average page count throughout the series is probably at around 800 pages per book so if 'A Memory of Light' goes above even 1200 pages (say), the insistence on 12 books max starts to look downright silly. A 2000 page book doesn't even make financial sense.

We'll see closer to 2008 I guess. :)

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Lord Union
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posted 15 January 2006 01:57 AM      $post_id   Send New Private Message    Reply With Quote 
I know about the forsaken, but I don't really see 13 as that a special of a number for the series. I admit to being enough of a fanboy to wanting 15 Jordan-par novels instead of 12 and 3 backstories + whatever might come out if he decides to revisit.

Then again, that does look like a lot when I write it out...

I'm right there with you on the economic viability argument. MSRP on the hardback books is $30 (stateside) and that's really as expensive as anything in the fiction section goes. I'd love to know the price your average B and N pays for these things in the first place.

I've seen variously 8-$20 including the cost of transportation, labor stocking, and the opportunity costs associated with carrying a fairly bulky relatively low return item versus about 15-20 5-$10 magazines that could fit in the same space. When you think that many of us will pay a discounted price of 30-50% off the $30 recomended sales price (I paid all of 17.46 for KoD) just by picking it up in the month after it's release the economics of the situation are difficult to think about.

Either these books are a loss leader, just to draw people in the store in hopes of selling other non-discounted books (I'll admit to buying some replacement WoT books while I'm there), or chains are making enough money on an economy of scale. Either way it's not a great deal from the point of view from the store; they'd rather have a couple of hot selling titles than just one that only generates one visit.

Maybe RJ doesn't worry about money, maybe he's fatigued by the fan base (my bet after reading some of our boreds (puns are funs)), tired of dealing with the same story taking up about 20 yrs of his life, or POed with a publisher he's been locked into for the cycle of this series.

Long on conjecture, short on knowing. I suppose that's why we're writting though. Curse you inimmediate gratification.

btw, counted pages and 1200 wouldn't be that out of step there are a couple of really hefty ones in the printings I have, woof.

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